What is it about this clinging to a substantiation of faith? The assertion that “My faith is superior or more genuine than yours!” The Abrahamic flags of TRUTH persist, and despite the world of Science (as it is now mythically worshiped as) what perpetuates the Abrahamic Chicken Egg righteousness?
Buddhist thinking does recognise Opiates as the Buddha drug - and a huge percentage of opium comes out of the “Persian” land mass (Judaic, Christian, Islamic).
The idealism of “life is a Holiday” fabricates allusions of one siting somehow on a beach, surrounded (if male) by fertile Sirens. Female fertility is marketed as encouraging the pursuit of a Male to pay for her Biological prerogative's. Yet who’s god is the real god. My life as a cartoon.
DV - I wish you'd start asking some difficult questions. :)
When folks believe in something that is completely unreal - cannot be proven with the 5 senses - then they need confirmation of their belief systems by converting and being around others who follow the same systems. Very few people can handle being completely alone in what they believe. They will always seek out "like-minded" folks to validate themselves.
Consequently, religions require conversion and communion. A believer must convert to prove to himself that the system of faith is valid, and he must adhere to a community of believers to maintain the system. It works not just in religion. If you really think about the concept of "nation," you will find a similar pattern - common symbols, desire for communion, holy days, saints, songs, etc. The words are different - nation/god, heroes/saints, holidays/holy days, songs/anthems - but the metaconcepts are identical.
Opium minims the opiates that our bodies produce, and combined with certain frequencies of sound, they induce powerful experiences (visions) that tap into a universal consciousness. Buddha was on to something. His Way is not so much a religion as a philosophy, though it has been warped over the millennia to compete with other systems. I would not be surprised to learn that he was in an opium trace while sleeping under the banyan tree for 20 years.
TT - That would certainly explain it. I just figured you were too ornery, like me. I certainly can't blame it on allergies, and I've done my fair share of opiates to boot. As Bono put it, "I still haven't found what I'm looking for."
Rufus, Bono...LOL! Years ago, my wife and I, and my family from the Midwest, when visiting, would go to John Foley's Irish House on O'Farrell Street in San Francisco. It was a big pub with oil portraits of Irish heroes hanging on the wall. One painting was of Bono.
One sunny SF afternoon, I was writing postcards at the bar as my wife went shopping (around 2003). A black young man came into John Foley's. He stood around looking at the oil paintings, the stained glass, the Irish culture and shook his head like he'd landed on the Moon. It was hilarious.
I've heard legends of Foley's, but have yet to get there. It's on my Fucket List
In 1980, I was living in Dublin. My friend up the road was in the music scene. One night we were hanging out in his attic studio when two guys named Bono and David called up. We sat around drinking Bailey's and jamming all night. David's stage name is Edge, by the way. Six months later, they released "Boy" and the rest is history.
Rufus, What a great story! My Dad, who didn't drink, was with me sitting at the bar at John Foley's Irish House. The bartender was an older Irishman doing the day shift. He asked me what we wanted. I ordered a beer.
My Dad said, "Just some mineral water. I'm flying the dirigible."
This made the Irish bartender laugh. "I'll remember that one." He said.
David, There is a whole film genre based upon "Life is a holiday." There is also a film genre based on "My Life Is a Cartoon." Both genres are popular and make money.
Mohammad borrowed much form the Jews and Christians in order to help gain credibility for Islam plus help recruit converts. When the Jews in Kaybar rejected Mohammad as a false prophet, he had them rounded up and half were executed, the other half sold into slavery, and all their possessions stolen. This became the template for Islamic expansion everywhere. This is not how Judaism was presented or introduced. Barnard Lewis says the Muslims killed at least 100,000,000 million infidels in their many conquests: some academics at the University of New Dehli recently estimated the number is more like 650,000,000, using more granular data with more focus on the east than western states.
So, I see some things in this recording that are probably true but I don't see how Islam is an offshoot or extension of Judaism.
DH - Not offshoot, any more than Christianity is an offshoot of Buddhism, but there are distinct lineages in concepts and practices.
Interestingly, the first treaty between the local tribes and a European power was with the King of Sunda and the Portuguese navy. The Sunda promised safe harbor and provisions in exchange for protection from Arab Muslims that were hacking and slaying (um...converting) their way across Java.
I personally find many parallels between Allah and YHWH, both in the etymology of the names and in temperament. The Islamic expansion mirrored the OT conquest of Canaan and surrounding regions. One might conclude that the early Muslims used the OT as a model or instruction manual on how to "convert" the masses. Shari'a and Deuteronomy/Judges share many parallels in what is forbidden and the punishments for infractions.
Muhammad seems to have incorporated bits and pieces of various cultures to gain acceptance and a unique cultural identity, in much the same way Christianity incorporated symbols and practices from other cultures (Christmas, Easter, Mithraism, etc.) in order to appease and "buy" loyalty from the many religions of Europe. In fact, Constantine might have been a model for Muhammad's strategy.
In any case, it would appear that Islam is an unreformed version of Judaism in many aspects.
Except that Islam is the only religion that spread by the point of a sword. Lewis pointed out in "What Went Wrong" as all Islamic societies started collapsing about 600 years ago that all Islamic societies are based on slavery and when that well started drying up because of all the defeats worldwide that Islamists suffered, they couldn't replenish their wealth, so having to rely on their own abilities, which were marginal. Also, we don't really know what Mohammed said, as he was illiterate and left no writings, and the Koran was not put together with writings until starting about 120 years later after his death, and taking another 60 years later to complete it. All of it is word of mouth passed down through generations. The Saudis have made a movie about Mohammed and the schism in Islam which might be very good but they haven't released it, being afraid that the Islamists will strike out violently because there are parts they might not like. Should come out this year, so keep an eye out for it. Let's watch and share thoughts when they do release it.
TT - Good point. Stalin and Mao together racked up 60 million or so, with larger populations to work with. Perhaps the cited numbers are overstated by 3 zeros?
Mao's and subsequent CCP leaders #'s are closer to 500,000,000. They took over officially in 1949 but Mao had been killing Chinese for the previous decades by the millions before they defeated the Nationalists. Many were fellow communists who got in his way: others like Buddhists, Muslims and Christians who opposed socialism. Good books to read about the latter era mass murders by Mao and Co. are "Tombstone" and The World Turned Upside Down? by Yang Jisheng, who lived and was some sort of government functionary, as I recall, and witnessed it . Weighty tomes very detailed.
Is not consistency and correlation with observational reality the vital tenets of meaningful religion? How does a religious system answer the 4 foundational questions? Origin, meaning, morality and destiny. These same questions a ship's captain must understand. Where am I from? Origin. Why am I out here? Meaning. How do I keep from bumping into others? Morality. Where am I going? Destiny.
Biblical Christianity says a Divine Creator gave us life, instructions on how to live, possibly of redemption (when going astray) as he ultimately provided the only path for restoration if the individual chooses to go His way through Jesus Christ. Our meaning comes as we submit to the Maker's design.
Frank Sinatra's song "I did it my way" would be the antithesis (dead-end in more ways then one).
The 66 book Biblical narrative points to Christ Jesus as the sacrifice that brings the cleansing we must have to live with God and at peace with others eternally.
I am not clear where the 3,000 year post edit of King David coming up with monotheism is based / evidenced. All I can say in the here and now is my ex-wife claims I said things which our contemporaries will join me in refuting. So what is a mother to believe?
Folks can come along and attempt to rewrite history to discredit and we are to accept?
There is clear evidence of editing much older texts revealed in careful study of the current bible, say KJV for argument's sake.
In the first place, the word "elohim" is 3rd person masculine collective (more than 2), and it has no English translation. Just paving over it with "god" does not change the underlying meaning. The common theological apology is that "god" is speaking in the "royal we" with his hosts, but that does not fit the original Hebrew, nor does it fit the Babylonian antecedent texts.
The Pentateuch, or Torah if you prefer, are directly adapted from Babylonian stories, which themselves are adapted from Sumerian stories. They have all the marks of a chronicle of actual persons and events, not metaphorical tales woven around natural phenomena.
The character we call David is clearly the focal point of editing and monotheism. It is at that point in the Bible where the chronicles take on a more metaphysical tone. He also is credited with making YHWH a singular character among the pantheon, ordering the many temples to be consolidated into one, and establishing a centralized theocracy. We have no proof that David ever existed, but taking the texts at face value make this clear.
There are many other examples, such as the first and second creations of humans, the term "ruach" referring to a craft or device rather than the "spirit" of "god," the vivid description of the interior of a craft given by Ezekiel (note the "el"), and Moses' experience on Sinai, and so on. The Dead Sea scrolls also provide a glimpse into early versions of our current Bible, showing clear edits. I haven't even begun to scratch the surface, or to dive into the New Testament.
With regard to the NT, I note Mark 8:44, where Jesus tells the Scribes and Pharisees that they "worship the devil" and the "father of all lies". The Pharisees were essentially the morality police and judges, who ensured compliance with Mosaic Law, and who "gave" the law to Moses? Ah yes, YHWH. That statement alone would be grounds for charges of blasphemy and penalty of death.
I also draw attention to the the Rozabal Shrine in Srinagar, Kashmir, and the tomb of Yuz Asaf, who the locals believe to be post-Resurrection Jesus. This shine has no logical place to be there, even if we assume the apostle James went to India after Pentecost. The shrine is about 2,000 years old, so it is contemporaneous with NT events and figures.
Anyway, I could go on, but I think this is sufficient to open inquiry into religion and faith-based control systems. Religion is an early for of government that has evolved into the institutions we have today. We have thus shed light on "origin," "meaning," and "morality". What remains is to destermine our "destiny".
Thanks for the essay. It was interesting to know the similarities between the two faiths. Did the Romans kick the Jews out of Judea, or did the Jews leave willingly?
Religions based upon buildings are kinda odd. The Jews have their Temple Mount. The Sikhs have their Golden Temple. The Muslims have their Black Rock (Blackrock Investments?). Christians have the Vatican and the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem. The Mormons have their Tabernacle.
They are just buildings. Yet, humans think they are so important.
TT - Interestingly, Jews pray at the foot of the Western Wall, which is surmounted by the Al-Aqsa mosque. Both claim the pile of rubble as a holy site. Note that the actual temple was located on Mount Zion a kilometer away from "Temple Mount," which is actually the ruins of Solomon's Palace.
There are a number of theories about sacred buildings being located on ley lines (cathedrals, pyramids, temples). There's also an interesting correlation with subsurface water sources, including Egypt, Europe, Mezzo-America, and Asia.
One theory is that the character we know as "King David" rewrote the Old Testament to consolidate everything into a single "god," and mandated the One Temple to centralize his power and to monopolize tithing. Farrell's study of the relationship between money and temples is fascinating (see "Financial Vipers of Venice).
In reply, let me say, I make no effort to convince or argue anyone into taking biblical text for its straightforward purpose: a personal relationship with God through Jesus. Submitting to God's instructions in ones' mind, heart and will has value for this life and the moment life ceases.
When you say "There is clear evidence of editing the bible..." I say, is there? Translational differences are evident, yes. We know King James was not a contemporary of King David by 2600 yrs? So his group had to go back to the closest manuscripts of the time and translate those into meaningful words / ideas relatable to his time. We, today, have many more collaborative documents which, in total, substantiate the ideas broadly held to in biblical scholarship. You correctly point to the dead sea scrolls as one example of affirming texts.
You suggest evidence exists King David changed things around subverting the meaning of Hebrew religious text predating himself.
Quite a statement without significant evidence put forward to validate such a claim.
The word Elohim is not translatable? Ok, the words "Radio far side" are also not translatable as they are what you chose for a name / identifier. Those have meaning to you and are meant to convey something to your readers but at the same time an unlearned internet browser would stumble across such words in succession and have no idea what you are on about.
Search results for: elohim
40 verses found. Showing up to 1000.
2 Chronicles 6:41 Now therefore, arise, O LORD God, and enter Your resting place, You and the ark of ...
... on salvation, and thy saints rejoice in good things. And now, arise, Jehovah Elohim, into thy resting-place, thou and the ark of thy strength: let thy priests, ...
Genesis 3:8 Then the man and his wife heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in ...
... the Lord God, amidst the trees of paradise. And they heard the voice of Jehovah Elohim, walking in the garden in the cool of the day. And Man and his wife ...
And they hear the sound of YHWH God walking up and down in the garden at the breeze of the day, and the man and his wife hide themselves from the face of YHWH God in the midst of the trees of the garden.
Young's Literal Translation
And they hear the sound of Jehovah God walking up and down in the garden
So translate means to make accessible. Everything does not make sense to everyone (Radio far side).
You state the pejorative "the common theological apology..." says who? That is not, in my experience, a common explanation.
Bible hub: "Elohim is a plural noun that is most commonly used in the Hebrew Bible to refer to the one true God, Yahweh, emphasizing His majesty and power. Despite its plural form, it is often used with singular verbs and adjectives when referring to the God of Israel, indicating a plural of majesty or intensity rather than number. Elohim can also refer to gods of other nations, divine beings, or even human judges, depending on the context."
The Hebrew Name for God - Elohim - Hebrew for Christians
Learn the meaning, usage, and frequency of the Hebrew name Elohim, the plural of El, meaning "Strong One". See how
Elohim is combined with other words...
Ok, about " Babylonian antecedent texts"? (Sumarian even less) How many of those are in existence for building a strong argument as to what actually came before?
Turns out not many. Required is a great deal of "piecing together" to decide what is supposed to represent their "thinking". However, the historical authenticity of OT Hebrew texts and the documents forming the New Testament are well established outside of "Christian " circles.
The BIBLE, throughout, points to a "Trinitarian Monothesim"
Genesis 1
King James Bible
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ...
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
1 John 1
New Living Translation
1 We proclaim to you the one who existed from the beginning, whom we have heard and seen. We saw him with our own eyes and touched him with our own hands. He is the Word of life. 2 This one who is life itself was revealed to us, and we have seen him. And now we testify and proclaim to you that he is the one who is eternal life. He was with the Father, and then he was revealed to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we ourselves have actually seen and heard so that you may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We are writing these things so that you may fully share our joy.
Mark 8:44 does not exist in any of my Bibles. An ancient Summarian text perhaps?
Jesus made a specific challenge to the "authorities/ knowledgeable/ intelligentsia" (who were not)
NLT John 8:42 Jesus told them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me. 43 Why can’t you understand what I am saying? It’s because you can’t even hear me! 44 For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!
My recommendation is to take seriously biblical answers to orgin, meaning, moralty and destiny. Sadly, you have not pointed to any system that provides coherent answers to these foundational questions.
The history of Christianity's impact on the advancement of human kind and particularly on the USA cannot be dismissed. Without Christianity's moral influence and its pointing to an ordered creation that can be examined and these principles applied to life (Sir Isaac Newton) the world would be stuck in self interested conflicts and minimal progress.
Each must decide is it true!
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Rufus, I'll tell you a John Foley's Irish House story:
It was about the year 2000 or so. I was 48, maybe 47. I'd flown from SeaTac to SFO to see my buddy, Joe. Joe was one of the old Lincoln hippies who were now living in Sonoma County, CA.
I'd booked us a room facing Bush Street at the Sheehan Hotel. Now, the Sheehan has a nice pool in the basement, but I wouldn't recommend the place. Most of the help is from Ireland, which was nice.
It's just a few blocks downhill past Union Square to John Foley's on O'Farrell Street. Joe and I were in there for hours drinking beer, swapping old stories, and listening to the Irish music.
About closing time, we finally stumbled up Powell Street and headed north towards our hotel.
Out of nowhere, it seemed, two very attractive black hookers approached us in a most personal way. Next thing we knew, we were in their Jeep Cherokee parked on the street, getting blow jobs. The hookers did put condoms on our dicks first, which was considerate.
Then, since we were too drunk to do much, they demanded money. Joe was flat broke. I emptied my pockets (maybe $40.)
Somehow, we got out of the Jeep, walked to the Sheehan, and made it to our room, where we collapsed in our drunken stupors.
What is it about this clinging to a substantiation of faith? The assertion that “My faith is superior or more genuine than yours!” The Abrahamic flags of TRUTH persist, and despite the world of Science (as it is now mythically worshiped as) what perpetuates the Abrahamic Chicken Egg righteousness?
Buddhist thinking does recognise Opiates as the Buddha drug - and a huge percentage of opium comes out of the “Persian” land mass (Judaic, Christian, Islamic).
The idealism of “life is a Holiday” fabricates allusions of one siting somehow on a beach, surrounded (if male) by fertile Sirens. Female fertility is marketed as encouraging the pursuit of a Male to pay for her Biological prerogative's. Yet who’s god is the real god. My life as a cartoon.
DV - I wish you'd start asking some difficult questions. :)
When folks believe in something that is completely unreal - cannot be proven with the 5 senses - then they need confirmation of their belief systems by converting and being around others who follow the same systems. Very few people can handle being completely alone in what they believe. They will always seek out "like-minded" folks to validate themselves.
Consequently, religions require conversion and communion. A believer must convert to prove to himself that the system of faith is valid, and he must adhere to a community of believers to maintain the system. It works not just in religion. If you really think about the concept of "nation," you will find a similar pattern - common symbols, desire for communion, holy days, saints, songs, etc. The words are different - nation/god, heroes/saints, holidays/holy days, songs/anthems - but the metaconcepts are identical.
Opium minims the opiates that our bodies produce, and combined with certain frequencies of sound, they induce powerful experiences (visions) that tap into a universal consciousness. Buddha was on to something. His Way is not so much a religion as a philosophy, though it has been warped over the millennia to compete with other systems. I would not be surprised to learn that he was in an opium trace while sleeping under the banyan tree for 20 years.
Rufus, I am allergic to opiates. No doubt, this is why I will never find enlightenment.
TT - I have to say, though, that most of the enlightened folks I've heard from say they ultimately ended up back where they started, only wiser.
Rufus, I keep trying to get lighter, but I like beer too much.
TT - That would certainly explain it. I just figured you were too ornery, like me. I certainly can't blame it on allergies, and I've done my fair share of opiates to boot. As Bono put it, "I still haven't found what I'm looking for."
Rufus, Bono...LOL! Years ago, my wife and I, and my family from the Midwest, when visiting, would go to John Foley's Irish House on O'Farrell Street in San Francisco. It was a big pub with oil portraits of Irish heroes hanging on the wall. One painting was of Bono.
One sunny SF afternoon, I was writing postcards at the bar as my wife went shopping (around 2003). A black young man came into John Foley's. He stood around looking at the oil paintings, the stained glass, the Irish culture and shook his head like he'd landed on the Moon. It was hilarious.
I've heard legends of Foley's, but have yet to get there. It's on my Fucket List
In 1980, I was living in Dublin. My friend up the road was in the music scene. One night we were hanging out in his attic studio when two guys named Bono and David called up. We sat around drinking Bailey's and jamming all night. David's stage name is Edge, by the way. Six months later, they released "Boy" and the rest is history.
Rufus, What a great story! My Dad, who didn't drink, was with me sitting at the bar at John Foley's Irish House. The bartender was an older Irishman doing the day shift. He asked me what we wanted. I ordered a beer.
My Dad said, "Just some mineral water. I'm flying the dirigible."
This made the Irish bartender laugh. "I'll remember that one." He said.
David, There is a whole film genre based upon "Life is a holiday." There is also a film genre based on "My Life Is a Cartoon." Both genres are popular and make money.
Mohammad borrowed much form the Jews and Christians in order to help gain credibility for Islam plus help recruit converts. When the Jews in Kaybar rejected Mohammad as a false prophet, he had them rounded up and half were executed, the other half sold into slavery, and all their possessions stolen. This became the template for Islamic expansion everywhere. This is not how Judaism was presented or introduced. Barnard Lewis says the Muslims killed at least 100,000,000 million infidels in their many conquests: some academics at the University of New Dehli recently estimated the number is more like 650,000,000, using more granular data with more focus on the east than western states.
So, I see some things in this recording that are probably true but I don't see how Islam is an offshoot or extension of Judaism.
Danny Huckabee
DH - Not offshoot, any more than Christianity is an offshoot of Buddhism, but there are distinct lineages in concepts and practices.
Interestingly, the first treaty between the local tribes and a European power was with the King of Sunda and the Portuguese navy. The Sunda promised safe harbor and provisions in exchange for protection from Arab Muslims that were hacking and slaying (um...converting) their way across Java.
I personally find many parallels between Allah and YHWH, both in the etymology of the names and in temperament. The Islamic expansion mirrored the OT conquest of Canaan and surrounding regions. One might conclude that the early Muslims used the OT as a model or instruction manual on how to "convert" the masses. Shari'a and Deuteronomy/Judges share many parallels in what is forbidden and the punishments for infractions.
Muhammad seems to have incorporated bits and pieces of various cultures to gain acceptance and a unique cultural identity, in much the same way Christianity incorporated symbols and practices from other cultures (Christmas, Easter, Mithraism, etc.) in order to appease and "buy" loyalty from the many religions of Europe. In fact, Constantine might have been a model for Muhammad's strategy.
In any case, it would appear that Islam is an unreformed version of Judaism in many aspects.
Rufus, The Portuguese Navy eventually left the Sunda to their fate with the Arab Muslims if I remember right. It's not a happy story.
Except that Islam is the only religion that spread by the point of a sword. Lewis pointed out in "What Went Wrong" as all Islamic societies started collapsing about 600 years ago that all Islamic societies are based on slavery and when that well started drying up because of all the defeats worldwide that Islamists suffered, they couldn't replenish their wealth, so having to rely on their own abilities, which were marginal. Also, we don't really know what Mohammed said, as he was illiterate and left no writings, and the Koran was not put together with writings until starting about 120 years later after his death, and taking another 60 years later to complete it. All of it is word of mouth passed down through generations. The Saudis have made a movie about Mohammed and the schism in Islam which might be very good but they haven't released it, being afraid that the Islamists will strike out violently because there are parts they might not like. Should come out this year, so keep an eye out for it. Let's watch and share thoughts when they do release it.
Danny, the Total world population in 800 AD was only about 240,000,000. Lewis is exaggerating the numbers.
TT - Good point. Stalin and Mao together racked up 60 million or so, with larger populations to work with. Perhaps the cited numbers are overstated by 3 zeros?
Mao's and subsequent CCP leaders #'s are closer to 500,000,000. They took over officially in 1949 but Mao had been killing Chinese for the previous decades by the millions before they defeated the Nationalists. Many were fellow communists who got in his way: others like Buddhists, Muslims and Christians who opposed socialism. Good books to read about the latter era mass murders by Mao and Co. are "Tombstone" and The World Turned Upside Down? by Yang Jisheng, who lived and was some sort of government functionary, as I recall, and witnessed it . Weighty tomes very detailed.
The #'s he used were for the 1500 years since Islam was founded. Ditto the Indian estimates.
Danny
Danny, I'd like to see the data he based his estimates upon.
I'd get his book, as that's where the references would be.
Danny, I'm not going to buy his book. Just give me a footnote or something.
Is not consistency and correlation with observational reality the vital tenets of meaningful religion? How does a religious system answer the 4 foundational questions? Origin, meaning, morality and destiny. These same questions a ship's captain must understand. Where am I from? Origin. Why am I out here? Meaning. How do I keep from bumping into others? Morality. Where am I going? Destiny.
Biblical Christianity says a Divine Creator gave us life, instructions on how to live, possibly of redemption (when going astray) as he ultimately provided the only path for restoration if the individual chooses to go His way through Jesus Christ. Our meaning comes as we submit to the Maker's design.
Frank Sinatra's song "I did it my way" would be the antithesis (dead-end in more ways then one).
The 66 book Biblical narrative points to Christ Jesus as the sacrifice that brings the cleansing we must have to live with God and at peace with others eternally.
I am not clear where the 3,000 year post edit of King David coming up with monotheism is based / evidenced. All I can say in the here and now is my ex-wife claims I said things which our contemporaries will join me in refuting. So what is a mother to believe?
Folks can come along and attempt to rewrite history to discredit and we are to accept?
There is clear evidence of editing much older texts revealed in careful study of the current bible, say KJV for argument's sake.
In the first place, the word "elohim" is 3rd person masculine collective (more than 2), and it has no English translation. Just paving over it with "god" does not change the underlying meaning. The common theological apology is that "god" is speaking in the "royal we" with his hosts, but that does not fit the original Hebrew, nor does it fit the Babylonian antecedent texts.
The Pentateuch, or Torah if you prefer, are directly adapted from Babylonian stories, which themselves are adapted from Sumerian stories. They have all the marks of a chronicle of actual persons and events, not metaphorical tales woven around natural phenomena.
The character we call David is clearly the focal point of editing and monotheism. It is at that point in the Bible where the chronicles take on a more metaphysical tone. He also is credited with making YHWH a singular character among the pantheon, ordering the many temples to be consolidated into one, and establishing a centralized theocracy. We have no proof that David ever existed, but taking the texts at face value make this clear.
There are many other examples, such as the first and second creations of humans, the term "ruach" referring to a craft or device rather than the "spirit" of "god," the vivid description of the interior of a craft given by Ezekiel (note the "el"), and Moses' experience on Sinai, and so on. The Dead Sea scrolls also provide a glimpse into early versions of our current Bible, showing clear edits. I haven't even begun to scratch the surface, or to dive into the New Testament.
With regard to the NT, I note Mark 8:44, where Jesus tells the Scribes and Pharisees that they "worship the devil" and the "father of all lies". The Pharisees were essentially the morality police and judges, who ensured compliance with Mosaic Law, and who "gave" the law to Moses? Ah yes, YHWH. That statement alone would be grounds for charges of blasphemy and penalty of death.
I also draw attention to the the Rozabal Shrine in Srinagar, Kashmir, and the tomb of Yuz Asaf, who the locals believe to be post-Resurrection Jesus. This shine has no logical place to be there, even if we assume the apostle James went to India after Pentecost. The shrine is about 2,000 years old, so it is contemporaneous with NT events and figures.
Anyway, I could go on, but I think this is sufficient to open inquiry into religion and faith-based control systems. Religion is an early for of government that has evolved into the institutions we have today. We have thus shed light on "origin," "meaning," and "morality". What remains is to destermine our "destiny".
Thanks for the essay. It was interesting to know the similarities between the two faiths. Did the Romans kick the Jews out of Judea, or did the Jews leave willingly?
Religions based upon buildings are kinda odd. The Jews have their Temple Mount. The Sikhs have their Golden Temple. The Muslims have their Black Rock (Blackrock Investments?). Christians have the Vatican and the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem. The Mormons have their Tabernacle.
They are just buildings. Yet, humans think they are so important.
TT - Interestingly, Jews pray at the foot of the Western Wall, which is surmounted by the Al-Aqsa mosque. Both claim the pile of rubble as a holy site. Note that the actual temple was located on Mount Zion a kilometer away from "Temple Mount," which is actually the ruins of Solomon's Palace.
There are a number of theories about sacred buildings being located on ley lines (cathedrals, pyramids, temples). There's also an interesting correlation with subsurface water sources, including Egypt, Europe, Mezzo-America, and Asia.
One theory is that the character we know as "King David" rewrote the Old Testament to consolidate everything into a single "god," and mandated the One Temple to centralize his power and to monopolize tithing. Farrell's study of the relationship between money and temples is fascinating (see "Financial Vipers of Venice).
Rufus, So, the "Holy Buildings" are all about tax collection and a water source.
Hey, Ruth, where are you going with that water jug? Got your tithe money?
In reply, let me say, I make no effort to convince or argue anyone into taking biblical text for its straightforward purpose: a personal relationship with God through Jesus. Submitting to God's instructions in ones' mind, heart and will has value for this life and the moment life ceases.
When you say "There is clear evidence of editing the bible..." I say, is there? Translational differences are evident, yes. We know King James was not a contemporary of King David by 2600 yrs? So his group had to go back to the closest manuscripts of the time and translate those into meaningful words / ideas relatable to his time. We, today, have many more collaborative documents which, in total, substantiate the ideas broadly held to in biblical scholarship. You correctly point to the dead sea scrolls as one example of affirming texts.
You suggest evidence exists King David changed things around subverting the meaning of Hebrew religious text predating himself.
Quite a statement without significant evidence put forward to validate such a claim.
The word Elohim is not translatable? Ok, the words "Radio far side" are also not translatable as they are what you chose for a name / identifier. Those have meaning to you and are meant to convey something to your readers but at the same time an unlearned internet browser would stumble across such words in succession and have no idea what you are on about.
Search results for: elohim
40 verses found. Showing up to 1000.
2 Chronicles 6:41 Now therefore, arise, O LORD God, and enter Your resting place, You and the ark of ...
... on salvation, and thy saints rejoice in good things. And now, arise, Jehovah Elohim, into thy resting-place, thou and the ark of thy strength: let thy priests, ...
https://biblehub.com/2_chronicles/6-41.htm
Genesis 3:8 Then the man and his wife heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in ...
... the Lord God, amidst the trees of paradise. And they heard the voice of Jehovah Elohim, walking in the garden in the cool of the day. And Man and his wife ...
https://biblehub.com/genesis/3-8.htm
Literal Standard Version
And they hear the sound of YHWH God walking up and down in the garden at the breeze of the day, and the man and his wife hide themselves from the face of YHWH God in the midst of the trees of the garden.
Young's Literal Translation
And they hear the sound of Jehovah God walking up and down in the garden
So translate means to make accessible. Everything does not make sense to everyone (Radio far side).
You state the pejorative "the common theological apology..." says who? That is not, in my experience, a common explanation.
Bible hub: "Elohim is a plural noun that is most commonly used in the Hebrew Bible to refer to the one true God, Yahweh, emphasizing His majesty and power. Despite its plural form, it is often used with singular verbs and adjectives when referring to the God of Israel, indicating a plural of majesty or intensity rather than number. Elohim can also refer to gods of other nations, divine beings, or even human judges, depending on the context."
Hebrew for Christians
https://hebrew4christians.com › Names_of_G-d › Elohim › elohim.html
The Hebrew Name for God - Elohim - Hebrew for Christians
Learn the meaning, usage, and frequency of the Hebrew name Elohim, the plural of El, meaning "Strong One". See how
Elohim is combined with other words...
Ok, about " Babylonian antecedent texts"? (Sumarian even less) How many of those are in existence for building a strong argument as to what actually came before?
Turns out not many. Required is a great deal of "piecing together" to decide what is supposed to represent their "thinking". However, the historical authenticity of OT Hebrew texts and the documents forming the New Testament are well established outside of "Christian " circles.
https://youtu.be/QhVPBNBAGY0?si=m1tFHlymcEAJOeUq
Can I trust the Bible: Wes Huff.
The BIBLE, throughout, points to a "Trinitarian Monothesim"
Genesis 1
King James Bible
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ...
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
1 John 1
New Living Translation
1 We proclaim to you the one who existed from the beginning, whom we have heard and seen. We saw him with our own eyes and touched him with our own hands. He is the Word of life. 2 This one who is life itself was revealed to us, and we have seen him. And now we testify and proclaim to you that he is the one who is eternal life. He was with the Father, and then he was revealed to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we ourselves have actually seen and heard so that you may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We are writing these things so that you may fully share our joy.
Mark 8:44 does not exist in any of my Bibles. An ancient Summarian text perhaps?
Jesus made a specific challenge to the "authorities/ knowledgeable/ intelligentsia" (who were not)
NLT John 8:42 Jesus told them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me. 43 Why can’t you understand what I am saying? It’s because you can’t even hear me! 44 For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!
My recommendation is to take seriously biblical answers to orgin, meaning, moralty and destiny. Sadly, you have not pointed to any system that provides coherent answers to these foundational questions.
The history of Christianity's impact on the advancement of human kind and particularly on the USA cannot be dismissed. Without Christianity's moral influence and its pointing to an ordered creation that can be examined and these principles applied to life (Sir Isaac Newton) the world would be stuck in self interested conflicts and minimal progress.
Each must decide is it true!
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Rufus, I'll tell you a John Foley's Irish House story:
It was about the year 2000 or so. I was 48, maybe 47. I'd flown from SeaTac to SFO to see my buddy, Joe. Joe was one of the old Lincoln hippies who were now living in Sonoma County, CA.
I'd booked us a room facing Bush Street at the Sheehan Hotel. Now, the Sheehan has a nice pool in the basement, but I wouldn't recommend the place. Most of the help is from Ireland, which was nice.
It's just a few blocks downhill past Union Square to John Foley's on O'Farrell Street. Joe and I were in there for hours drinking beer, swapping old stories, and listening to the Irish music.
About closing time, we finally stumbled up Powell Street and headed north towards our hotel.
Out of nowhere, it seemed, two very attractive black hookers approached us in a most personal way. Next thing we knew, we were in their Jeep Cherokee parked on the street, getting blow jobs. The hookers did put condoms on our dicks first, which was considerate.
Then, since we were too drunk to do much, they demanded money. Joe was flat broke. I emptied my pockets (maybe $40.)
Somehow, we got out of the Jeep, walked to the Sheehan, and made it to our room, where we collapsed in our drunken stupors.
We woke up about noon feeling fine.